Street vs. Sport

I very rarely read or participate in martial arts discussion forums these days. But when I did back in the late 90′s, when forums were becoming popular, everyone was arguing about “street vs. sport”. (Matt Thornton and Burton Richardson were two of the biggest contributors arguing for sport style training.) With the first UFC in 1993, people saw how grapplers and mixed martial artists were wiping the floor with traditional martial artists. Most TMA practitioners either closed their eyes and pretended their traditional styles were more effective than they were, or adapted. Those who stuck with traditional styles often used a “street vs. sport” argument claiming their style was designed for the street where there are no rules, and was too deadly to be used effectively in the ring. These arguments went on for years, and the TMA crowd mostly lost.

Why MMA Wins

Since that time MMA has become hugely popular and most people regard traditional martial arts with a bit of skepticism to say the least, usually rightly so. There are two primary reasons most MMA fighters easily beat TMA practitioners. First, training methods. MMA training and the training in sports that typically make up MMA (boxing, Thai boxing, wrestling, BJJ, etc.) is the best there is. In these styles people train against fully resisting opponents. Most TMA training on the other hand involves doing solo drills and prearranged partner drills. This training does not prepare you for real fighting. If you want to learn how to fight you MUST train against uncooperative, fully resisting opponents. You have to spar in all ranges (stand up, clinch, ground, and the three together). The second reason TMA practitioners were easy for MMA fighters to beat was their poor technique. When training is unrealistic and practitioners are only training with members of their own style, very ineffective techniques evolve that don’t work under real, uncooperative pressure.

This Won't Work

Both the punch and the block above are great examples of the horrible techniques that evolve as a result of unrealistic training, not to mention the complete lack of footwork. So MMA is the best, and the street vs. sport argument is BS, right? Not so fast! Just because many of the TMA people making the street vs. sport argument didn’t know how to fight doesn’t mean the argument isn’t at least partially valid. Like everything, it’s not black or white, but something in between.

Why Street Is Different

Street self defense requires several components that sport fighting does not, and these make all the difference in the world. The most important of these are awareness, deception, dirty tactics/techniques, and weapons. Awareness isn’t taught or trained in sport fighting or MMA, but it’s extremely important in self defense.

Deception is hugely important in self defense, and when combined with the use of more damaging techniques and weapons, it can give a smaller, weaker, less skilled person the ability to beat a larger, stronger, unsuspecting sport fighter. MMA fighters can of course learn to be deceptive and use more damaging techniques, but because their training doesn’t require it they generally don’t, and generally aren’t prepared for these to be used against them. You fight how you train.

There are rules in MMA, and in every specific combat sports competition, but not so in self defense. The quickest, most effective self defense techniques are illegal in sport fighting, and this changes the way people fight. The footwork that can accompany an eye strike or a groin slap for example isn’t very effective or useful in MMA. In MMA there are weight classes, and a 150 lbs woman has very little chance against a 200 lbs man largely due to the technical limitations of sport fighting. Typical sport style training completely neglects the most efficient and effective techniques, along with the set ups and footwork that makes them work best.

Possibly the most important distinction however is the use of weapons on the street. In MMA there is not only no weapons training, but the techniques and positions that are trained would often lead an MMA practitioner to be more vulnerable to weapon attacks. In self defense the use of and defense against weapons should represent at least half of all training. It’s highly unlikely a person will ever be attacked by a single opponent who is smaller, weaker, and unarmed. The use of weapons in self defense leads to a massive advantage, and the ability to defend against them is essential.

The Solution

MMA training is top notch, and all self defense practitioners should adopt the same approach to training. But MMA is severely lacking in the areas of awareness, deception, dirty tactics, and weapons. The solution is to combine the two, ending up with the most efficient and effective armed and unarmed techniques, realistic training, and a winning strategy involving awareness and deception. That’s reality based self defense, and the aim of Hertao.

Wing Chun is a controversial style, and for good reason.  Many of the training methods are ineffective at best.  The prearranged solo forms, which are questionable as training methods in the first place, have illogical orders and stick to the superstition that having 108 moves each is somehow better than 50, 63, or 107.  Routinely, MMA practitioners deride Wing Chun as being a BS system.  This sentiment is understandable, but incorrect.

The concept of simultaneous attack and defense in Wing Chun is excellent, as is controlling the center, the solid structure of the techniques, and basic trapping.  The emphasis on attacking the eyes, throat, and groin is also great for self defense.  But in order to pull any of it off in reality, the training needs to be realistic.  And, some modifications will make Wing Chun safer to apply.  Even still, Wing Chun was not made for the ring.

The lop sao or pull is a great trap to use before kicking your opponent in the groin (following up further if necessary of course).  And the groin kick is very effective.  But you can’t use groin kicks in the ring.  The pak sao or smack is another great trap for self defense, especially when followed by a hack in the neck or finger in the eye, neither of which are allowed in MMA.  You can follow the lop sao or pak sao with punches or palms, but against boxing style structures the “pak sao, punch” or “lop sao, punch” combinations are far less effective.

There are exceptions.  Using a pak sao to create an opening for a punch or two, possibly causing your opponent to cover or retreat, will provide the opportunity for a double lop sao (two handed pull) into knees and elbows against a cover, or a kicking follow up against a retreat.  But due to the unrealistic training in most Wing Chun schools, practitioners are only used to dealing with other Wing Chun stylists…who very often ineffectively stand in one place attempting to block, block, block as a cooperative defense.

In MMA you might see someone opening with a jab-cross combo from boxing, followed by a kick from Thai boxing, followed by a clinch entry and takedown from wrestling, followed by ground techniques from Brazilian jiu jitsu.  They take what’s useful from each style and use various parts where they’re appropriate.  Wing Chun can be used similarly.  An MMA practitioner could use a pak sao trap to increase the likelihood of landing a jab, followed by a cross, then a double lop sao into a knee, etc.  The structure of the “tan sao” can be used to stop a takedown attempt.  The “huen sao” techniques is identical to the initial motion of pummeling or swimming in the clinch.  In self defense, the simultaneous biu sao and punch works very well against most hooks, as does trapping to eye jabs, groin kicks, and throat strikes.

Wing Chun isn’t just BS, and it does have a great deal to offer.  But in order for the strengths to come out, both WC and MMA practitioners need to open their minds and forget about previous prejudices!

I received the following video this morning from “Nodan”, who talks about himself in the third person:

I don’t have any problem whatsoever with a person practicing karate, breaking boards, etc., for fun. I did it myself years ago. But please don’t claim any of this stuff will work in self defense. Showing a gun defense from long rang where you dodge a single shot and respond by punching the attacker in the ribs is downright stupid. It will get you killed.

As Bruce Lee famously said, “boards don’t hit back”. Not only do they not hit back, but they don’t move! No attacker is going to stand and do nothing, allowing you to punch them dead in the face. The fact that this guy refers to himself in the third person, has the voice of an old woman, and talks about demons doesn’t help. It’s sad that most of the comments on the above video are positive. Come on people!

EDIT: Apparently this mystery man, “Nodan”, went on a DVD sending spree in 2005…sending DVD’s to martial arts schools with no return address or info on who he was. Here are two posts on the subject if you’d like to waste a little time.

I’ve been meaning to re-design and update the entire Hertao site, add more video, blog posts, etc., but have been too busy lately. I was asked on the Bullshido forum if I could find a version of sumbrada that was done at an “acceptable level”, and will post the results of that unfortunate search here. First I want to be clear that with the following videos I’m not suggesting that any of these guys can’t fight or defend themselves with a stick…only that the way they’re training sumbrada is not realistic. On to the videos:



The block with the checking hand that you see in seconds 6 through 8 will not work in reality. The only reason it works in the above video is because the “attacker” is holding his stick still in mid air. If this were reality, the “defender” would have his hand smashed by the stick as it followed through. The stick WILL follow through in reality, as you can see here. Only a cooperative partner will stop his stick in mid air so you can put your hand on his hand.

The same “defense” is done again at the 15 second mark. It doesn’t take much imagination to see that if the attacker really swung hard and followed through, the “defender” would have a really messed up hand and arm. The rest of the video is more of the same. Here’s another:



It’s hard to say which of these videos is worse…but I’ll go with the second. These guys are playing stick patty cake. They’re tapping their sticks with ZERO intent, stopping them in mid swing, putting their hands in places where they’d get nailed in reality, etc. Seriously, this is stick patty cake. The guys move into Pekiti’s “thrust on tapping” drill and also into hubud. All of it is done as if the target is in the middle of the air. Another:



This one looks a lot better on the surface, and to many people not familiar with real stick fighting, it’s impressive. The guys are moving all over the place, and going relatively fast. However, the footwork is not done with a purpose. It doesn’t help with evading, entering, etc. The “checking hand” positions will not work in reality. The only reason they work in this drill is because the practitioners are stopping their sticks in mid swing.

I should add here, there’s nothing wrong with stopping your attack in mid-swing in order to do a drill like sumbrada. The problem is when that action stops you from realizing your technique will not work otherwise. When we trained sombrada we often stopped our sticks in mid-swing also. The difference is that our checking hand position was either out of the way of the follow through, or would have stopped the swing itself. For anyone who hasn’t seen our sumbrada video, here it is again:



Notice the details. When the checking hand is used (in the case of the inside swing or #1 for example), it checks/stops at the wrist, not on the hand. Checking on the hand will not stop the swing. It will follow through and nail your hand.



I think this was the best video I found, but still not very good. In general these guys have “better” hand positions, and sometimes they’re even almost realistic. Take a look at second 2:18. This obviously will not work, and that’s the checking hand position used against the #1 swing in the majority of the video. The idea/position at second 2:23 is far better than at 2:18, but I seriously question whether the structure of that check/grab would hold up under a full power swing. The swing goes directly against the weak part of the grip.

Some people may argue they know all of the above, and the poor checking hand positions are only used in training. But why? What’s the point of training positions that will not work, when it’s just as easy to train positions that will work?!?!?!?

So why are people training sombrada this way? I have no idea. But just because everyone is doing it doesn’t mean it works!

I’ve added the new video above, along with a page with more explanation here: Wing Chun Trapping.  I think the video turned out well, but may give the impression that I think trapping has less application than I actually do.  In the coming days I’ll add more techniques to the Wing Chun page along with additional applications of trapping.

I learned Paul Vunak’s Rapid Assault Tactics (R.A.T.) directly from him in 2000, during two days of semi-private classes after a seminar of his in Long Beach.  Precisely due to that experience, I’m surprised to see this video of him performing the “blast” portion of R.A.T. in such an ineffective way:

Click here to read more »

Michael Blackgrave wrote a great post yesterday titled Martial Minions. Many Asian martial arts are supposed to be about a search for the truth, often referencing philosophical elements of Zen, etc., yet promote the exact opposite. It’s common to see everything from entirely ineffective techniques that are trained over and over again without thought, to identically clad robots who move exactly like their instructors, to teachers with cult like followers. Although the Filipino martial arts have slightly less pseudo religious dogma, they’re full of camouflage wearing wackos who idolize instructors that talk about chopping off heads rolling with eyes still open, and the like. Click here to read more »

I’ve just added a new video on sumbrada, along with pictures and a description of how to do the drill correctly. Sumbrada, along with hubud and other pre-arranged patterns, trapping, etc., has been the subject of much controversy over the years. In 2000 I had a long argument on the old Inosanto forum, and another in 2002 on the old MMA.TV forum with Burton Richardson and Matt Thornton in which Marc Denny (Crafty Dog) also chimed in. Actually, most of the video I’ve posted above comes from a DVD I made to send Denny in 2002 after the MMA.TV discussion. Click here to read more »